← Back to Library

Episode #231 ... the late work of wittgenstein - language games

Pitch

There's a rhetorical trick that's become standard in internet debates: force your opponent to define exactly what they're discussing—God, justice, insurrection—and then watch them scramble for an answer. The crowd cheers as exceptions pile up. But what if this isn't a failure of definition? What if it's two people playing entirely different language games? Stephen West argues that Ludwig Wittgenstein's final work offers a powerful explanation for why these conversations seem to go nowhere—and why they might be unavoidable.

Episode #231 ... the late work of wittgenstein - language games

The Capture of Language

Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations, published after his death, opens with a direct assault on what he calls the Augustinian theory of language. This is the common belief that words function like name tags: someone points to an apple, everyone agrees it's an apple, and the word gets written into the dictionary.

The problem? Words don't work this way.

West explains that Wittgenstein saw every word's meaning as emerging from a community of people using it in context. No single person points at an object and names it. Meaning comes from shared rules and practices—grammars—that have crystallized over time through countless interactions. A baby can't learn "red" by simply pointing at a fire truck because the child lacks the community context to know whether red means color, the truck itself, or the sound it makes.

Language is never just pointing—it requires an entire community of practice to make sense.

These grammars aren't fixed. They shift as communities change. Yet they're not arbitrary either. Certain human tendencies—caring for loved ones, mourning the dead, joking with friends—always shape what we find meaningful. Wittgenstein calls these "forms of life." They're the foundation upon which all language rests.

The Geometry Problem

A natural objection arises: aren't triangles definable? A triangle is a polygon with exactly three sides. This seems like an objective fact.

Wittgenstein would agree that geometry operates by its own grammar—a closed system where proofs justify claims, and axioms ground definitions. But here's the crucial point: this grammar differs fundamentally from everyday conversation.

When someone applies mathematical certainty to political debates or daily life, they misunderstand how language works. West points out that trying to use chess rules for dating conversations would make someone seem foolish. Yet philosophers since Plato have attempted exactly this—translating one language game's grammar into another and expecting coherence.

This is why the debate tactic at the episode's opening works so well. Opponents operate in ordinary language games while challengers demand mathematical precision. It's an impossible task by design—and it exploits a deep insight about how we communicate.

The Debate Tactic Explained

The person asking for definitions isn't seeking truth. They're deploying rhetoric that makes sense only within a different grammar. They know the other side will fail to provide perfect definitions, and they can then point out exceptions while the audience doubts the opponent's knowledge.

But Wittgenstein would say these aren't failures of understanding. They're people using fundamentally different language games—geometry versus everyday speech—and neither is wrong.

Bottom Line

West presents Wittgenstein's case as a powerful lens for understanding why definitional debates feel so frustrating. The strongest part of his argument: meaning doesn't live in individual minds but in community practices that no one controls. The vulnerability: this could read like relativism, and reasonable people can disagree about whether community consensus makes language too fluid to ever achieve shared truth. What comes next is asking how we find common ground when everyone operates from different grammars.

Deep Dives

Explore these related deep dives:

Sources

Episode #231 ... the late work of wittgenstein - language games

by Stephen West · · Watch video

Hello everyone. I'm Steven West. This is philosophize this. patreon.com/floifiesth this.

Philosophical writing on Substack at philosophize this on there as well. I hope you love the show today. So, there's a tactic that's become pretty popular in what some people would call the debate space of the internet these days. There's a trick someone will do where at the very beginning of the conversation, they'll ask the other person to define the exact thing that they're going to be talking about that day.

They'll sound kind of like this. just to start out today. can you please give me your definition of God? Can you give me a definition of abortion or insurrection or justice, whatever it is that day and then the other person will usually take the bait.

They try to give their take on it. Maybe they'll say an insurrection is when a group of people try to overthrow some form of authority out there. Then the other person will say back to that, well based on your definition is a prison riot an insurrection, then that's people overthrowing an authority. If a union fires a manager that's harassing employees, is that an insurrection?

How about if my two kids both kick me in the shins at the exact same time? Is that an insurrection? if you can't even define what it is we're supposed to be talking about today, are you even qualified to be here? All the while, this person's usually winning points with the crowd that's watching the debate.

if the other side can't get to the essence of what we're talking about, then what are we even talking about? This scene actually isn't too far away from something a lot of you'll be familiar with from the history of philosophy. There's a guy that used to do something like this, although he did it in good faith and was trying to avoid rhetoric while he did it. His name was Socrates.

Remember, he'd go out into the public square with people shopping and walking around. And he'd ask them to give him a definition of something like justice. When they gave him this definition, he'd rip it apart, point out all the limitations in it, to point out how there's examples of justice that clearly fall outside of the rational protocol you've just set up there. Would you like to try again ...