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Ep18 Iranian interconnections

The Lost Friendship

What makes this piece compelling is how Dan Carlin and John Gazvinian reframe a relationship Americans have largely forgotten — the decades when Iran was one of America's closest allies. The conversation traces not just diplomatic history, but the emotional arc of how that friendship collapsed.

Ep18 Iranian interconnections

Carlin opens by acknowledging his own bias: "i remember the country as one of our greatest friends in the world maybe our greatest friend" in the region during the 1970s. This framing is effective because it names what many younger Americans have never experienced — an Iran that was a partner, not an adversary. The guest, John Gazvinian, confirms this was indeed a "heyday of US-Iran relations" — a period when Iran was "portrayed very positively in the United States" and seen as "this kind of glamorous kingdom."

The conversation then pivots to something more surprising: how far back the connection actually goes. Gazvinian notes that Iranians sought American friendship starting in the 1850s, "to cultivate a sort of third force against the British and the Russians." This is the piece's strongest revelation — that for nearly two centuries, Iran actively courted America as an alternative to European powers.

The United States seemed to have a very hands-off and even some ways anti-imperialist kind of viewpoint.

The anecdote about the first disagreement between Iran and the US is revelatory: "the very first disagreement that Lebanon in the United States ever had was in the 1850s" when Iran wanted to purchase American warships to send "a message to the British." The Americans said no — "we don't want to interfere in your affairs."

This history reveals something often lost in today's discourse: Iran has always wanted America involved. The current adversarial relationship is actually the anomaly, not the pattern.

The Constitutional Parallels

The conversation then turns to Iran's political evolution — specifically the 1906 constitutional revolution, which Gazvinian describes as creating "the first Muslim country with a parliament immediately the first country in Asia to have a parliament." This detail matters because it challenges the narrative that Islam and parliamentary democracy are naturally opposed.

What emerges is a pattern: both the 1906 constitutional revolution and the 1979 Islamic revolution were driven by "public dissatisfaction with the Iranian governments giving away too much to foreign governments." The same dynamic that fueled anti-British and anti-Russian sentiment in the 19th century later targeted the United States. This is the piece's most important insight — the grievance has always been about foreign influence, not specifically about America.

Critics might argue that framing this as purely a story of lost friendship oversimplifies the complex ideological revolutions that defined Iran's modern history. The 1979 revolution was not merely anti-American — it fundamentally reshaped the country's governance structure around Islamic law. The emotional nostalgia for a friendly Iran ignores how much the internal political dynamics had already shifted before the US-Iran relationship fractured.

Bottom Line

The strongest thread running through this conversation is the "third force" strategy — Iran's deliberate, centuries-long effort to balance European powers by cultivating American friendship. That history explains why the current antagonism feels so jarring and unnatural. The vulnerability lies in assuming history predicts future; the 1979 revolution broke every pattern Gazvinian describes, and no amount of historical ties guarantees a return to cooperation. What should concern readers is how quickly the "friendly" era was forgotten — suggesting that once relationships break, they may not be recoverable.

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The content should have: - Hook paragraph about what makes this notable - Several sections with ## headings - Direct quotes from Dan Carlin or John Gazvinian (4-8) - Paraphrasing of arguments - Editorial judgment throughout - Counterpoints woven in - Pull quote (formatted as > blockquote) - Bottom line section

Let me write the actual commentary now:

The Lost Friendship

What makes this piece compelling is how Dan Carlin and John Gazvinian reframe a relationship Americans have largely forgotten — the decades when Iran was one of America's closest allies. The conversation traces not just diplomatic history, but the emotional arc of how that friendship collapsed.

Carlin opens by acknowledging his own bias: "i remember the country as one of our greatest friends in the world maybe our greatest friend" in the region during the 1970s. This framing is effective because it names what many younger Americans have never experienced — an Iran that was a partner, not an adversary. The guest, John Gazvinian, confirms this was indeed a "heyday of US-Iran relations" — a period when Iran was "portrayed very positively in the United States" and seen as "this kind of glamorous kingdom."

The conversation then pivots to something more surprising: how far back the connection actually goes. Gazvinian notes that Iranians sought American friendship starting in the 1850s, "to cultivate a sort of third force against the British and the Russians." This is the piece's strongest revelation — that for nearly two centuries, Iran actively courted America as an alternative to European powers.

The United States seemed to have a very hands-off and even some ways anti-imperialist kind of viewpoint.

The anecdote about the first disagreement between Iran and the US is revelatory: "the very first disagreement that Lebanon in the United States ever had was in the 1850s" when Iran wanted to purchase American warships to send "a message to the British." The Americans said no — "we don't want to interfere in your affairs."

This history reveals something often lost in today's discourse: Iran has always wanted America involved. The current adversarial relationship is actually the anomaly, not the pattern.

The Constitutional Parallels

The conversation then turns to Iran's political evolution — specifically the 1906 constitutional revolution, which Gazvinian describes as creating "the first Muslim country with a parliament immediately the first country in Asia to have a parliament." This detail matters because it challenges the narrative that Islam and parliamentary democracy are naturally opposed.

What emerges is a pattern: both the 1906 constitutional revolution and the 1979 Islamic revolution were driven by "public dissatisfaction with the Iranian governments giving away too much to foreign governments." The same dynamic that fueled anti-British and anti-Russian sentiment in the 19th century later targeted the United States. This is the piece's most important insight — the grievance has always been about foreign influence, not specifically about America.

Critics might argue that framing this as purely a story of lost friendship oversimplifies the complex ideological revolutions that defined Iran's modern history. The 1979 revolution was not merely anti-American — it fundamentally reshaped the country's governance structure around Islamic law. The emotional nostalgia for a friendly Iran ignores how much the internal political dynamics had already shifted before the US-Iran relationship fractured.

Bottom Line

The strongest thread running through this conversation is the "third force" strategy — Iran's deliberate, centuries-long effort to balance European powers by cultivating American friendship. That history explains why the current antagonism feels so jarring and unnatural. The vulnerability lies in assuming history predicts future; the 1979 revolution broke every pattern Gazvinian describes, and no amount of historical ties guarantees a return to cooperation. What should concern readers is how quickly the "friendly" era was forgotten — suggesting that once relationships break, they may not be recoverable.

Now let me format this as valid JSON with proper escaping:

What makes this piece compelling is how Dan Carlin and John Gazvinian reframe a relationship Americans have largely forgotten — the decades when Iran was one of America's closest allies. The conversation traces not just diplomatic history, but the emotional arc of how that friendship collapsed.

Carlin opens by acknowledging his own bias: "i remember the country as one of our greatest friends in the world maybe our greatest friend" in the region during the 1970s. This framing is effective because it names what many younger Americans have never experienced — an Iran that was a partner, not an adversary. The guest, John Gazvinian, confirms this was indeed a "heyday of US-Iran relations" — a period when Iran was "portrayed very positively in the United States" and seen as "this kind of glamorous kingdom."

The conversation then pivots to something more surprising: how far back the connection actually goes. Gazvinian notes that Iranians sought American friendship starting in the 1850s, "to cultivate a sort of third force against the British and the Russians." This is the piece's strongest revelation — that for nearly two centuries, Iran actively courted America as an alternative to European powers.

The United States seemed to have a very hands-off and even some ways anti-imperialist kind of viewpoint.

The anecdote about the first disagreement between Iran and the US is revelatory: "the very first disagreement that Lebanon in the United States ever had was in the 1850s" when Iran wanted to purchase American warships to send "a message to the British." The Americans said no — "we don't want to interfere in your affairs."

This history reveals something often lost in today's discourse: Iran has always wanted America involved. The current adversarial relationship is actually the anomaly, not the pattern.

The Constitutional Parallels

The conversation then turns to Iran's political evolution — specifically the 1906 constitutional revolution, which Gazvinian describes as creating "the first Muslim country with a parliament immediately the first country in Asia to have a parliament." This detail matters because it challenges the narrative that Islam and parliamentary democracy are naturally opposed.

What emerges is a pattern: both the 1906 constitutional revolution and the 1979 Islamic revolution were driven by "public dissatisfaction with the Iranian governments giving away too much to foreign governments." The same dynamic that fueled anti-British and anti-Russian sentiment in the 19th century later targeted the United States. This is the piece's most important insight — the grievance has always been about foreign influence, not specifically about America.

Critics might argue that framing this as purely a story of lost friendship oversimplifies the complex ideological revolutions that defined Iran's modern history. The 1979 revolution was not merely anti-American — it fundamentally reshaped the country's governance structure around Islamic law. The emotional nostalgia for a friendly Iran ignores how much the internal political dynamics had already shifted before the US-Iran relationship fractured.

Bottom Line

The strongest thread running through this conversation is the "third force" strategy — Iran's deliberate, centuries-long effort to balance European powers by cultivating American friendship. That history explains why the current antagonism feels so jarring and unnatural. The vulnerability lies in assuming history predicts future; the 1979 revolution broke every pattern Gazvinian describes, and no amount of historical ties guarantees a return to cooperation. What should concern readers is how quickly the "friendly" era was forgotten — suggesting that once relationships break, they may not be recoverable.

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Sources

Ep18 Iranian interconnections

by Dan Carlin · Dan Carlin · Watch video

it's hardcore history the guest we're going to have on today is talking about a subject that is near and dear to my heart i first fell in love with what i would have called persian civilization as a teenager by studying ancient history and the persians are in one of their perhaps their greatest period it depends on how you define greatest but perhaps the greatest period in their history but they've had many and of course the long time antagonist in the ancient world of the greeks and so you get caught up in the romance and the and the fascinating involvement the persians had in the region then you start studying how often they have that involvement and you begin to understand that this is a traditional regional superpower and then right when i'm really getting heavily into my interest in persia the situation with the modern nation of iran takes a 180 degree turn when i was a kid iran was a nation friendly to the united states in fact one of our best friends the shift to a fundamentalist religion-backed revolution where the united states was the great satan was an unbelievable turn of events not just for the united states but for the entire world stage in terms of what it did to things and many people have been born since without any memory of a friendly iran at all john gasvinian is going to talk to us today well basically about anything i ask him about so the deficiencies in the conversation are yours truly not asking more questions about more things i remember looking at the clock and thinking wow i've i've kept this historian here a long time i don't want to keep him all day but boy i never even got to x y and z so that's my fault and i do ho oh john gazvinian and you all an apology for the way this sounds we have several methods for doing interviews remote interviews they all sound great some of the time and then let you down other times so we'll try something different next time so my apologies to everyone involved any mistakes are purely my own or imaginary creatures who shall be unnamed i'll share the blame maybe in any case without further ado the fabulously interesting john gasvinian talking about the american and iranian relationship ...