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The future of economic security with dan kim and chris miller

Most discussions on economic security treat the CHIPS Act as a simple race to rebuild factories, but this conversation with Dan Kim and Chris Miller reveals a far more uncomfortable truth: the United States never had a coherent theory of what "success" actually looks like. Jordan Schneider guides a dialogue that strips away the political theater to expose the raw mechanics of supply chains, admitting that the administration's initial mandate was to fix a crisis while simultaneously fearing a future glut. This is essential listening for anyone trying to understand why $39 billion in incentives might not be enough to secure the nation's industrial future.

The Diagnosis of a Disease

Jordan Schneider opens the floor by asking Dan Kim about the chaotic early days of the CHIPS Program Office, where the team was handed a blank slate during a global shortage. Kim recalls the visceral reality of the moment: "There were parking lots full of unfinished cars near Detroit. Some executives told me there were unfinished Carnival cruise ships — billion-dollar ships that couldn't be finished because of $2,000 worth of accessory chips." This anecdote is crucial because it reframes the crisis not as a lack of advanced technology, but as a failure of basic, mature components. The administration was reacting to immediate pain rather than executing a long-term vision.

The future of economic security with dan kim and chris miller

Kim admits that his initial instinct was to write a historical diagnosis of how the U.S. lost its manufacturing dominance, but political pressure forced a pivot to forward-looking targets. "The paper I initially wanted to write wasn't about what we're hoping to achieve, but rather a diagnosis of how we got here in the first place," Kim explains. This shift from understanding the disease to prescribing a cure highlights a recurring weakness in American industrial policy: we often skip the autopsy of past failures to rush toward new legislation. The result was a strategy that was "oversubscribed" and lacked clear metrics for evaluation, leaving officials to define "economic and national security" on the fly.

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. We got punched about 500 times by 500 potential applications.

The Four Cs and the Illusion of Self-Sufficiency

To bring order to the chaos, Kim developed the "Four Cs" framework: Capacity, Capability, Competition, and Criticality. Jordan Schneider notes that this was an attempt to create a consistent scoring system for applications, but the framework reveals the inherent tensions in the strategy. Kim argues that true resilience isn't about total self-sufficiency, which is neither affordable nor desirable. Instead, the goal is "managed dependence." He points out that for standardized goods like memory chips, the industry relies on an oligopoly where suppliers intentionally limit market share to ensure customers have alternative sources. "They preferred long-term contracts. That works because it's a standardized good with standards set at JEDEC," Kim observes.

However, the logic breaks down for customized leading-edge chips, where the supply chain is far more fragile. The administration's strategy of "friend-shoring" assumes that allies will naturally fill the gaps, but Kim warns that suppliers are hesitant to build capacity in the U.S. without guaranteed volume. "Taiwanese suppliers would tell me, 'It's great that they're building fabs in the US. But come back when there is a third fab,'" he says. This exposes a critical vulnerability: the government is trying to jumpstart an ecosystem that private capital is only willing to enter once it sees proof of demand. Critics might note that relying on market forces to solve a national security problem creates a dangerous lag time, potentially leaving the U.S. exposed during the transition.

Apple vs. The Fast Followers

The conversation shifts to a broader question of national power: is it better to be the inventor (Apple) or the fast follower (Xiaomi and BYD)? Jordan Schneider frames this as the central dilemma of the 21st century. Kim pushes back against the binary choice, arguing that the U.S. needs both models to thrive. "Apple's path is harder because it is inventing the future and taking risks," Kim states, acknowledging the massive spillover benefits of American innovation. Yet, he questions why the American system cannot also reward the efficiency and scale of fast followers. "Why can't we have a Xiaomi-like company too?" he asks, suggesting that a healthy economy requires a mix of high-risk invention and high-volume execution.

This distinction is vital because it challenges the notion that economic security means dominating every sector. The administration's focus on "capability" (new technologies) often overshadows the need for "capacity" (volume and scale). Kim warns that if the U.S. only pursues the Apple model, it risks ceding the mass markets that drive global influence to competitors who are willing to underprice American goods. "The industry spends about $150 billion per year in CAPEX, but we've got $39 billion in incentives for the next five years," Kim notes, highlighting the sheer scale of the challenge. The government's budget is a drop in the bucket compared to private sector spending, meaning policy must be surgical rather than sweeping.

We couldn't have done the CHIPS Act without huge engagement with fabless customers. It wouldn't have worked otherwise.

Bottom Line

The strongest part of this analysis is its candid admission that the U.S. lacks a clear theory of victory for its industrial strategy, forcing officials to improvise metrics like the "Four Cs" in real time. However, the argument's biggest vulnerability is its reliance on "friend-shoring" as a solution to geopolitical risk, ignoring the fact that allies are equally motivated by profit and may not prioritize U.S. security needs over their own. Readers should watch for how the administration handles the inevitable supply glut when these new factories come online, as the current strategy assumes demand will magically appear to absorb the new capacity.

Sources

The future of economic security with dan kim and chris miller

by Jordan Schneider · ChinaTalk · Read full article

Is there such a thing as MAD in economic warfare? How should we measure the effectiveness of our industrial policy tools, and what outcomes should we be aiming for anyway?

Our guest today is Dan Kim, who served at USITC with stints at Qualcomm and SK hynix before returning to government as the Chief Economist for the CHIPS Program Office. He recently joined TechInsights as Chief Strategy Officer. Also joining us is Chris Miller of Chip War fame.

We discuss:

What $39 billion can and can’t buy — why the CHIPS Act was never meant to de-risk the U.S. from China or Taiwan, and what “success” looks like when autarky is neither affordable nor desirable,

Apple vs. Xiaomi + BYD — invention versus fast-following as competing models of national power, and which system performs better when the goal shifts from profit maximization to geopolitical resilience,

What resilience actually means — capability vs. capacity, weakest links, and whether economic security should be measured as “time to recovery” rather than self-sufficiency,

Managed dependence vs. overreliance, and whether dependence itself can be a form of power,

Why the U.S. still lacks a clear theory, metrics, and institutional design for industrial strategy — and what you can do about it.

Listen now on your favorite podcast app.

Getting Punched in the Mouth.

Jordan Schneider: When you got the mandate to help conceptualize what the CHIPS Program Office should spend money on, what was your thought process? Where did you begin?

Dan Kim: Secretary Raimondo asked me to come in, and we had a chat about how to draft up a strategy from a blank piece of paper and execute it. We had congressional mandates — specifically spending at least $2 billion on mature node technologies — but few prescriptions for what success looked like or how to measure it.

Remember, this was in the middle of COVID-induced supply chain shortages. There were parking lots full of unfinished cars near Detroit. Some executives told me there were unfinished Carnival cruise ships — billion-dollar ships that couldn’t be finished because of $2,000 worth of accessory chips. When I was meeting with the Secretary while representing a company, the question was: how soon can you get another fab online? There wasn’t a recognition of a memory shortage at the time — it was mostly shortages of less advanced chips, like MCUs, that couldn’t finish a car. We ...